The Triumph of Truth By Repeated Assertion


Much of what I’m going to say here has been said a million times elsewhere, so I’ll keep this quick and short.

So we can’t prove the existence of Maryadha Purushottam Ram. So he never existed. The Ramayana and Mahabharata are fairytales suitable only to make megaserials and cartoons from. Hindus are a bunch who Worship False Gods, a heathen lot, perpetrating inequality by establishing and strictly following a caste system.

Hinduism is a stumbling block on the Nation’s way to progress. The idolaters won’t even let nation-building activities (Never mind that the Sethusamudram project would at max let only small ships and vessels pass via Ramar Sethu, that inland transportation is easier and cheaper by road than by sea, and that it would increase the risk of tsunamis hitting the west coast, and the costs of the project would outweigh the benefits) take place successfully by citing their religious beliefs. When will they ever learn? How many more years before the brainwashing that starts from kindergarten will completely work with no exceptions?

Thank heavens we have photography. Otherwise maybe Hitler would have been remembered by future generations as a genial man driven to suicide by the rest of the world.

It feels like the humble beginnings of 1984. How much longer before the government has a Department of Misinformation which works tirelessly at modifying previous years’ data so as to make us believe, or rather understand, that we have made progress, we are always making progress?

Seriously speaking, would anyone even hear of razing down the Wailing Wall for a new superhighway? Or dispute the existence of Jesus Christ? Or of Virgin Birth?

Update: A considerable amount of literature survey has gone into the writing of this post. It tests my patience to have to go back again to square 1 to explain the whole Ram-Kahaani (excuse the expression) again to every ill-informed person, so here are a few fundae clarifying my position on the issue, and WHAT I am writing about, and what meaning each sentence holds/ is supposed to convey.

  1. To start with, the basic premise is, this is not an economically feasible project. So no response will be given to people who talk about “for the sake of economic progress”. Your point is simply not valid, not worth arguing about. And it’s too surface-level; you can use this for your primarySchool debate, or while having chai with like-minded pals.
  2. Another concern is the ecological concern. I suggest readers read this article before saying another word.
  3. My issue is not about whether Ram existed or didn’t. Who is to say he did? Or didn’t? There is considerable debate about whether Lady Godiva existed, whether William Tell existed, or whether Romeo and Juliet were for real or what… or for that matter, whether Shakespeare really existed or was the pen-name of someone else… all that is lost to the mists of time.
  4. So what am I arguing about if not any of the above? Well, it is this: in spite of the project being shown as non-feasible, and rather detrimental to the country’s progress, they are choosing to ignore this. They have gone as far to hurt the beliefs of a large section of the society. The same government which does not hesitate to ban Satanic Verses, or The Da Vinci Code goes about making statements such as this, in complete violation of Section 295(a) [Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.]. My issue is with the fact that this is a gross miscarriage of justice, of the spirit of secularism, and applying of double standards. It is a sad thing for India if the spirit and faith of the majority of its population is being broken to pieces and no one’s even noticing. To hell with pseudosecularists. No.. wait.. that’s where they originally came from!
  5. As for Holocaust and 1984, it is commonly said that the path to the Holocaust was paved with apathy. No one realized what was happening. It was “somebody else’s problem”, and people were taken in with Hitler’s words on ethnic cleansing, and really believed there was a “Jewish Problem”, which merited a “Final Solution”. At the beginning, Jews had to wear yellow Stars of David. It all started with something so insignificant. Students in school had a subject called Racial Science where they learnt about how Aryan race is superior to Semitic races. Every single thing in schools reeked of anti-semitism [“Number six, shaped like a Jew’s nose”… that sort of thing]. While it all seemed insignificant, harmless little things, all together, they gave Jews themselves an idea of what they were, and the Jews themselves began to believe all that that was said about their inferior race, and some even went willingly. Only after WWII ended, and only because of the media attention and media portraying the whole operation negatively do we have such an idea about this. If most people today read Hitler’s propaganda, they would be quite taken in, too!

About wanderlust

just your average books-and-music person who wants to change the world.
This entry was posted in Adam's Bridge, Controversies, Ramar Sethu, Secularism, Sethusamudram Project. Bookmark the permalink.

34 Responses to The Triumph of Truth By Repeated Assertion

  1. Absolutely right. After sayin that Rama didn’t exist, fearing backlashes from their “Hindu” Vote bank, Ms.Gandhi, sent a uber-Hindu Mr.Bharadwaj, to address
    the nation, that Rama’s existence is based on faith and HE should not be dragged to court.. WTF.
    Forget Religion, Forget God, It’s a million year old Coral reef for Rama’s sake.
    When will they ever learn?….

  2. This statement of the ‘secular’ Government in court that Ram didn’t exist is nothing but a frontal attack on Hindu faiths and beliefs. It was indeed a blasphemy.

    Very 1984-ish.

    Very well-written post.

  3. Pavan says:

    Hear, hear.

    The main problem, I think, is that we have a bunch of pseudo-secularists and a bunch of religious fundamentalists. On the one hand, the government is increasingly marginalizing the interests of the biggest section of populace, and on the other, the opposition is doing its best convincing us that the right people are in power.

    This needs to be repeated a lot more times if you ask me.

  4. rand0mwalker says:

    Ahem, broad generalizations I would say. Though I always maintained (and I still do) that I am not one of the many “-ists”, I believe a party famous for voicing out instigating slogans and forcing people back into the dark ages is NO representative of Hinduism. My understanding of Hinduism is that it comes closest to what we usually call Freedom. It’s very clear from these hooligans’ acts, that they have their own interpretation, and are unable to distinguish personified qualities or motifs from the real thing. Never mind, can’t expect much from them.

    But WTF is the government doing swinging like a Yo-Yo? True, we need history. We should learn it so that we don’t repeat some mistakes. But what would be our contribution to history? Just that we were blind it’s worshippers ? What would the future generations learn about us? That we taught them, “Abstain from all good work, because what is good has already been done. Thy job is to protect it and do no more” ?

    The emotion that the state of politics in our country stirs up within me is disgust. And the funny part is that though most would agree with me, we all will stop right there and continue with our day to day activities. Sigh! Ignorance, is indeed bliss!

  5. wanderlust says:

    @abhishek:
    >>It’s a million year old Coral reef for Rama’s sake.
    They don’t care what happens as long as the faith of the majority community suffers a hard blow.
    @harish:
    I agree.
    @Pavan:
    The opposition needs good leadership and refined methodology of opposing this reign of terror.
    @rand0mwalker:
    I don’t quite get your stand on the whole matter.
    But I’m not sure the Sethusamudram Project would qualify as good work. It is not found to be economically viable. If the government decides to plough on with the project disregarding the opinions of ecologists and other experts in the field, it will be quite obvious as to what their intentions are.
    I can’t imagine people stepping aside and letting the Taj Mahal get razed down just coz Tata found that that is the best site for his new steel plant which will reduce steel costs by 20%.
    As for good work… why isn’t Uniform Civil code being implemented?

  6. B Chopra says:

    Travelled here from Nita’s blog…

    Excellent & Great post.. You said many essentials in short. I completely agree with your views.

    Good one.. Thanks

    Bharath

  7. Nita says:

    Traveled here from your comment on my post Wanderlust! Hey I really like your post! Its great. Hard-hitting and to the point!
    As to your views, I agree with them a hundred percent.

  8. shaliniraghunath says:

    apart from being blasphemous, the government is turning deaf ears to the cries of the environmentalists .

    well timed and well written.

  9. B Chopra says:

    They want only Sonia to take part in making final PM kind of decision.. he he

  10. Pavan says:

    The left is doing a better job as opposition than what the NDA is doing!

  11. While it is true that there is historic basic to suggest the existence of Jesus Christ and the Prophet Muhammed, and there is none to suggest, even remotely, the existence of Rama, it ALONE cannot form the basis for rejecting an idea that has been ingrained in the Indian psyche, and not just the Hindu psyche, mind you. The Ramayan and Mahabharat have as much to do with the Hindu culture, as they have with the Indian culture as a whole.
    In an effort to prove to the Left how secular the UPA actually is, the Sethusamudram project is being undertaken, is my amateur guess. Agreed the project eliminates the unnecessary need to circumnavigate Srilanka, but it also bypasses the concerns and beliefs of millions upon millions of Hindus’ belief systems.
    Even if the bridge was only a “sand formation” as told by ASI, an opinion I agree with, I’d rather have the sand formation undisturbed than have it razed for a concrete bridge.

  12. wanderlust says:

    @ all:
    glad to see the response!
    @ Nita:
    honoured.
    @Pavan:
    if being vociferous is what you mean, i must agree.
    @spunky monkey:
    rightly said. couldnt agree more with everything you mentioned.

  13. AJ says:

    Um so do you believe in “asuras”, demons, Daemons, “pisachas” etc existed and that the fantastic weapons detailed in the Ramayana existed as well?

  14. wanderlust says:

    how do you decide whether to believe something or not? just ‘coz it seems impossible to believe is not reason enough to disbelieve something. once upon a time, people found it impossible to imagine that there could be machines that could count. not very long ago, people worldwide found it impossible to believe that polynesians could have travelled in 500 AD from south america to australia, until Thor Heyerdahl proved it could be done.

  15. pr3rna says:

    //Forget Religion, Forget God, It’s a million year old Coral reef for Rama’s sake.
    When will they ever learn?….//Abhishek is right.

  16. Tony says:

    quote: “The opposition needs good leadership and refined methodology of opposing this reign of terror.”

    Reign of terror??? ROTFLMAO!! are we really talking about india here?? Wander away!!!

  17. wanderlust says:

    laugh all you like, but this is how 1984, holocaust, rule of the khmer rouge and indira gandhi’s emergency began. and apathy such as this paved the way for it. Hitler called it a “final solution” and said it was for the “healthy sensiblity of the people”, Congress calls it “secularism”, karunanidhi is slightly rougher… he says the upper-classes will clean the loos of the lower castes one day.
    history repeats itself merely because we are simply not listening!

  18. Tony says:

    “Congress calls it “secularism”, karunanidhi is slightly rougher… he says the upper-classes will clean the loos of the lower castes one day.”

    i dont see what this has anything to do with the post.. are u trying to claim that the government is not secular? in that case can u please tell me what it is?? it is absolutely unbelievable that u can bring up such ridiculous arguements!

  19. wanderlust says:

    post–>comment on govt. etc –>reign of terror–>you laughing about it–>me explaining what i meant by that.
    that’s what it has to do with the post.
    when a government is said to be SECULAR, it has a duty to protect and respect beliefs of all religions. which is sadly not what has been happening.

  20. Tony says:

    file your above comment under attempts at humour! God help you!

  21. wanderlust says:

    *shrugs*. you can awaken a sleeping man, but not one who’s pretending to be asleep.

  22. vishfulwords says:

    After reading this whole post and all the comments and your reaction to them, there is just one thing I would like to ask. Wanderlust, do you believe in God and the existence of the bridge?
    From the start of your article, I assume you don’t, but who knows?

    Even if you do, you are right.It shouldn’t be a hindrance to the nation’s trade and finance.

    Just one poine I would like to bring up: The very same BJP who brought up the idea during their thirteen-month rule in ’99-’00 have now vehemently taken the opposite stance!

    That’s not because they are “staunch Hindus and RSS-bred citizens”. It’s just simply because they are dirty politicians!

  23. Sam says:

    I agree with you. The truth is we all treasure our holy places. But really, does it make a genuine difference to you that someone chooses to sidestep some religious issue for once and go all out, small as the measure may be, to do something constructive for a change. I am as ‘religious’ as they get, a visit to my blog would convince you. But since you mentioned it, I will not for a moment give a damn if they want to break down the wailing wall ( yes, those Jewish bastards would think otherwise !! ). And I seriously wouldn’t mind if the whole of India or Mr Man Singh declares that Jesus Christ was a conman himself. For that matter, a certain book tried to do something on the lines of that, but even if i were the president, i wouldn’t seriously think of banning a book like that. True, people did oppose Dan Browns book ( ironically they banned it only in several Muslim nations) . But let me tell you, it never for a moment made me waver in my faith. Your beliefs are meant for you and those who want to hear it from you. A certain Mr Modi warned his followers of being lethargic, and there you had it, the whole Godhra violence and its repurcussions. Funny that you sound similar to him or maybe you’ve just stopped short of someone like Vedanti and not gone on to declare a..what was it..the hindu version of the fatwa. The point is, the strength of your belief lies not in some barely palpable proof you haven’t even seen all your life. For Buddhas sake ( just trying to sound neutral here..;) ), given the intensity of your post, you chose to ignore the obvious, on why its named Adams Bridge and not Rams Bridge when Ram was supposed to have built it. And as for 1984 and the Germans Apathy towards Hitler, I cannot but pity you, or maybe its just you feigning ignorance. Yes I know, times like these are a test of your faith, God Help You !!!

  24. wanderlust says:

    @vishfulwords:
    i suggest you do some reading-up on the implications of sethusamudram project. ecological, mainly. it is NOT economically feasible. it’s gonna take some 50-75 years to break even. and who knows if fuel and fuel costs will even be a concern then! and if they want to reduce the breakeven point to 25 years, they have to increase toll for ships using the channel. and the channel can only be used by very small freight carrying ships. who will prefer to go around srilanka if either ways they’re going to be paying around the same amount.
    and they would prefer going around srilanka for another reason. the width of the channel is 12m. which is too small, even by smaller ships’ standards. they’ll have to slow down till speeds are 0, coz otherwise, they’ll run aground, and then take measures so as to cross the channel unharmed, which take two hours to set up, and a further two hours to wind up, and cross the channel at a very very very low speed. it all seems like too much trouble for virtually nothing.
    and for the ecological impact: the biggest protests are coming from the christian and muslim fishermen of rameshwaram and surrounding areas. the dredging is harmful for the fish population, their livelihoods are going to be the most affected. (someone say economic development?) and ships crossing the area is going to have a huuuge negative impact: the warden of the gulf of mannar says now sea-cows are losing their way because these animals communicate by sending vibrations in the sea, and ships and dredging upset the rhythm
    other concerns include the tsunami’s impact. and yet others the rich marine life of the ecosystem at the gulf of mannar.
    There are also three alternate routes for the same project. all of which do not go thru the coral reef. which is a unique ecosystem all by itself.
    INSPITE OF ALL THIS, if the government decides to go ahead with the dredging, it is quite obvious what their intentions are. it bodes a very bad time ahead for hindus. the government is simply not being “secular”, merely being pseudosecular. they want to break the backbone of the nation, the spirit of the nation.
    i suggest you read on this.. you can start here
    Maybe then you’ll have some solid opinions on that, backed by facts, and express them the write way, too, with much less ambiguity than i have.
    @sam:
    oh, great, so anyone says something right, and that something happens to be something in favor of the majority, they get labelled terrorists etc etc.
    yeah, that is something you’ll just say, that you dont mind the wailing wall being broken etc etc… but what about your fellow christians… once i’d put up a post on this blog which was transcript of Rowan Atkinson’s “sermon” where he says jesus christ was just a magician who pulled tricks and one-liners, and mary magdalene was his assistant and that paul daniels is really the son of god [and this was from rowan atkinson, not me], and the comments i received on those were simply too much; i had to remove that post. whereas, if i put a parody of Ramayan or Mahabharat, like many bloggers i know do, there will be people who laugh and say “good one!”. Hindus are tolerant. and every step is being taken to take advantage of that fact and slowly raze down our pride… little drops of water make a mighty ocean never held truer. systematically, we have been taught that our religions and our gods are all fiction. not many hindus have pride in their religion. and any attempt to redress that is called “saffronization”.
    adam’s bridge is what the british called it. just like Victoria Terminus. and Calcutta. And Bangalore. it is called ramar sethu. or raamar paalam.
    it is quite obvious you dont know the depth of the issue, nor have you made yourself aware of facts that are to me, basic premises. this is not the place for ignorant comments. i dont have enough time to dispel ignorance of each ill-informed commenter. kindly do some preliminary reading up before you comment here.

  25. Sam says:

    Well, just before I made the comment I did make it a point to do a bit of reading and kind of try to relate it to your case for the bridge, however weak it was. However, I cannot convince you that I do know some of the ‘basic premises’ since you seem to dispel views that are contrary to yours with a condescending sense of general awareness. In your case , you do not make any mention of a premise however ‘basic’ it may sound, save for the fact that your pride is sullen by a pseudo secular government. But then again, your recourse to ecological and practical reasons is understood given the weakness of your argument. What you should understand is that the Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project was approved by none other than a certain BJP government which was in power at that time. Surely, you were not aware of that !!!!! Why didn’t anyone make such a big hue and cry then. Isn’t it amazing that a government supported by the Jan Sangh overlooked the emotions and feelings of people like you and went on to approve such a project. Even if it were the Congress govt. who first thought about it, they surely weren’t doing it for kicks sake ( pun intended ). Or are you going to go and say that this is another form of minority appeasement. Anyways, as they say, its better late than never. You must understand, that i’m not for once doubting your awareness, after all, i said, you were only ‘feigning’ ignorance.

    And Yes, some people would be hurt if they saw Rowan Atkinsons play. Only, I would place them in the same category as you. Hasn’t it ever crossed your mind that in the west, regardless of religious opposition, the media making a mockery of important religious figures is allowed to all extents. Haven’t you seen western television at all, limiting yourself to the Sunday renditions of Mahabharata and Ramayana. A few episodes of South Park should do the trick. Educate yourself !!!! ( And put that post back on the page )

    And FYI, its called Adams Bridge because according to Islam, Adam is said to have crossed the strait to reach Adams Peak, which is in Sri Lanka.

    “not many hindus have pride in their religion. and any attempt to redress that is called “saffronization”.”

    So is it the Cong govts fault that not many people have pride in their religion. From what I last heard, a secular govt. shouldn’t even bat an eyelid if it had 1 billion atheists instead of 1 billion ramsevaks.

  26. Tony says:

    hey ppl tone down the mud slinging…

    as far as i knw
    the govt proposed it n more or less took it back…got a few scapegoats frm the geological survey team or whatever period

    all this side tracking n calling names is baseless n needless…

    i guess most ppl will agree that the UPA is more secular than the NDA anyone else needs a head-boiling session

  27. Tony says:

    TIP OF THE DAY

    read the sports page, solve the crossword and chuck the newspaper 😉

  28. wanderlust says:

    >>your recourse to ecological and practical reasons
    those were not exactly for bolstering my argument. i mentioned those coz they nullify the standard oft-quoted “economic progress” arguments which vishfulwords had put across.
    The point i chose to stress by citing those was, though it is not economically feasible, the government still chooses to go along with it, putting in plain light its intentions.
    >>Project was approved by none other than a certain BJP government
    The issue is not which government what goes. It’s that This government isn’t exactly doing right by making claims like what it has. No matter which government does it, it’s wrong.
    >>‘feigning’ ignorance.
    Isn’t it obvious by the amount of info i’ve put here that i’m doing quite the contrary?
    >>Rowan Atkinsons play
    You seem to be from NITW. It was one of your college-mates who said he found it offensive.
    >>western television
    What about Danish cartoons? And protests against Darwinism being taught in schools (In the US of A, nonetheless) as they clashed with Genesis? Fatwas against writers? Have you read Stephen King’s Carrie by any chance?
    And… India is the first country to ban Satanic Verses. India also bans Da Vinci Code. Because they trigger sensitive emotions. But any Nirad Chaudhuri can make arbit comments on india and get away with it. Execute one Iraqi, and Bangalore is on fire.
    >>And put that post back on the page
    I’m afraid I have my security at risk… not only did your college-mate find it offensive, but also a few others who weren’t as mild also did. And I’m not Karunanidhi that I can get away with stuff like that.
    >>its called Adams Bridge because according to Islam
    Hey, just make that a bit more public. It might just save the livelihoods of a zillion fisherfolk and save an entire ecosystem.
    >>shouldn’t even bat an eyelid if it had 1 billion atheists
    Not when we have been denied our heritage. Systematically brainwashed. When the reason people turn atheists is Truth by Repeated Assertion. When we have been forced to be atheists by truth by repeated assertion. Our temples desecrated since 10th century. Being made to pay Jazia for so bloody long.
    How many people know the Indus Valley Civilization (Now being given the secular name of being in the Ghaggar Hakkra Valley) was originally called the Indus-Sarasvati civilization (The Sarasvati river being very central to the entire civilization… how many times is it even mentioned in the history books?)? How many people take pride in it being the world’s first and possibly finest example of town-planning? Ask any civil engineer worth his salt about their town-planning schemes, and if he’s sufficiently informed, he’d say it was one of the best (i’ve had it from great civvies in my college). How many pages in textbooks are devoted to study of our very own civilization? and how many to that of Mughals/Sultanate? Why is the Aryan Invasion theory being accepted as the sole truth and taught in schools when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary? In other words, why did Nehru’s government concern itself so much about CREATING atheists of hindus? going by your logic, they should have not batted an eyelid when they had a billion believers.
    Most countries make romantic mysteries out of their legends. Look at the search for Atlantis. So many scientists pursuing it fulltime. And look at us… we aren’t even willing to accept that one of the the world’s first dockyards (In Lothal, Gujarat) deserves to be (atleast nominated) a wonder of the world over a mausoleum.
    I would prefer non-personal attacks, which don’t talk about my awareness or the lack of it or whatever it is that wins you debates in wherever you come from. as a rule, NITKians debate on and discuss issues, not improvised personal attacks.
    I’m not being judgemental about you and casting aspersions on your frame of mind or current mindset and I’m responding with logic, you’d better do the same. Be polite and relevant, or be marked spam.

  29. wanderlust says:

    @Tony
    >>anyone else needs a
    that’s just your opinion.
    >>all this side tracking n calling names
    I’m not guilty of either. Nor am i guilty of mudslinging.
    Cor, this is just arguing. do not take it personally – grow up. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but when people argue about issues, they argue about the issue, too, with no personal jibes. Take for example this one.
    >>read the sports page, solve the crossword and chuck the newspaper
    final year jobless+growing presence of ebooks over paperbacks+recurring powercuts ensure that a lot more time is spent with a newspaper. And.. we’d also like to know about when we’ll be called to vote next, who to vote for (we have friday off for municipality elections 😀 ).. so most of us will choose not to follow your advice.

  30. C Sivakumar says:

    Thank you Priya for the wonderful post. I wish that these pseudoseclarists are shown the door. But alas! what is the alternative. Anyway, I think we need to first show these bunch of morons the door first and then think of the alternative!!

    CSK.

  31. Vishnu says:

    A good post quite sensible one. Hurting anybody’s religious sentiments is wrong be it Hindu or Muslim.
    The rule of the book should be applied without any bias. But sadly nothing but the fear of losing votes seems to spur these politicians. A spineless PM, “dutybound” female first citizen and a pig of an agnostic tamil moron help very little to save the situation.

  32. Nitin says:

    @Priya
    Agree

  33. vishfulwords says:

    I once put in a reply on this thread way back, when I was not just less aware, but completely aware of one side of the issue, and that, believe me, is a terrible position to comment from or take a stance bt anybody, even worse than being less aware about the whole issue, since it creates a dangerous bias!
    Now, after having Rajeev’s blog, one that I wholeheartedly believe, deserves the Thinking Blogger nomination, I have got a look on the issue from different perspectives.
    And, I daresay, yes, there are a lot more angles to it apart from the purely religious. Most of the opinions that I may want to express have already been done by the writers above. And yes, the war of words between wanderlust and Sam made great reading!
    Well, thank you, wanderlust, for a sensible post and directing me to Rajeev’s blog!

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